Re: Obsolete elements -- trying again

Daniel W. Connolly (
Fri, 26 Aug 94 12:48:40 EDT

[From what I can tell, your reply didn't get to Leo... he's
not on html-wg, as far as I know. He's at <>]

In message <>, Peter Flynn writes:
>> I was wondering why XMP and LISTING are being made obsolete. They are
>> very useful when you want to return system error messages to the user
>> during the execution of a script. I can't use PRE because Lynx will get
>> confused when there is an unadorned "<".

XMP and LISTING are still in the DTD. They are not in the sections on
"how to write new documents," but they are in the "how to implement
a browser" sections. (I think.)

>> Is there any chance that the obsolete status of XMP and/or LISTING can
>> be changed?
>I was puzzled by this too: there are many times when you might want to
>include verbatim text explicitly lifted from an external source which
>may contain arbitrary ASCII or ISO 646 characters...

You can't stick arbitrary ASCII inside <XMP> or <LISTING>. If your
"arbitrary string" or "system error message" contains "/>" or "]]>"
then it can't be expressed using XMP or LISTING.

On the other hand, you _can_ put an arbitrary string inside <PRE>.
The characters '<', '>', and '&' may be represented as numeric
character references (&#38; for &, e.g.) or entity references (&amp;).

See the section on "special characters" in the HTML 2.0 spec: