Minutes from Chicago HTML Meeting

Mon, 14 Nov 94 09:55:14 EST

Sorry folks, for the tardiness of these minutes. Its not obvious to me
that they will shed significant illumination on the present discussion.


HTML-WG Meeting
Monday, Oct 17, 1994, Chicago World Wide Web conference.


Eric Sink (Spyglass)
Stuart Weibel (OCLC)
Eric Miller (OCLC)
Yuri Rubinski (SoftQuad)
Tom Magliere (NCSA)
Ron Daniel (Los Alamos)
Dave Raggett (HP, UK)
Roy Fielding (UC Irvine)
Phillip Hallam-Baker (W3O, CERN)
Liam Quin (SoftQuad)
Corp Reed (Cold Spring Harbor Lab)
Mitra (Mitra Internet Consulting)
Murray Maloney (SCO)
Bill Perry (Spry)
Terry Allen (O'Reilly Associates)
Thomas Churchill (EIT)
David Land (Verity)
Jeff Sutor (UCLA)
Jon Bosak (Novell)
Chris Wilson (Spry)
John Punin (RPI)
Dave Hollander (HP)
Jim Seidman (Spyglass)
Larry Jackson (NCSA)


HTML 2.0 Spec

Eric Schieler, Mike Knezovich are doing the editing work at Spyglass

erics@spyglass.com for direct communication, but please keep stuff
public and archived.

Some discussion about how to proceed:

Focus on large issues, rather than small probs or editing
but want to get these fixed, please

Email address for corrections: send to html-wg list


Model is no longer pass around, but rather submit comments to
Mike and Eric.

Murray: character sets

Editors prefer red ink on paper when possible.

LQ: Discussion of 3.0 cannot wait for finishing 2.0: it should proceed in parallel


Eric, Murray - Spec needs copy editing

Major Areas of concern

- Deprecated practice issues (Terry Allen)

- Vocabulary consistency (Liam Quint)

- Need renderings of characters (as figures or gifs) (various)
Cannot be part of the official RFC except as attached figure

- ICAAD (Yuri Rubinski) Is there consensus that fixed attributes necessary
to support ICAAD - no impact on conventional browsers?
TIMBL- can this be an appendix?
Yes... Yuri and Jeff will take responsibility

- Deal with text (copy editting) separately from DTD (MURRAY)

- ERIC: will take notes of this meeting on the gospel (paper) copy

Extensive discussion on implications of deprecation, recommendation
sections on browser witers and document authors took place; highlights

TERRY: Recommends taking out Recommended and Deprecated sections,
from DTD and Document.. publish them elsewhere. Will make the document
less controversial.

TIMBL - leaving these things out will be more controversial

MITRA - taking them out encourages people to write poor browsers

TIMBL - toggle deprecated stuff.

MITRA - No one should generate deprecated structures, all browsers should
accept it.


Erik sink has TIMBLs summary

Terry recommends that this narrative should appear at or near section 3.1


ALT Image default: should it be default void "", or default
"Image goes here" Consensus: default is void

Discussion of List content model raised by Murray: p 63/31
Required: (DT+, DD)*
Deprecated: (DT|DD)*

3.11.1 Fix prose to reflect the above


ROY FIELDING: proposes re-definitions of levels; existing definitions are
arbitrary and do not describe any browsers

level 0: conveniently rendered or ignored
level 1: images
level 2: forms

TIMBL suggests its too late to do this, Eric Sink concurs


DTD needs synching with prose (Terry Allen)


Dave Raggett: Body text appearing in Head should not be rendered.


Entity Table (p 47) needs to be corrected



Process: open process - no one has veto power, including the editors.

There seems to be a consensus that a 2.1 level spec should be evolved;
enhancements to the existing document but short of the major changes
anticipated for the 3.0 spec

ROY: 2.1 could be an extension of existing practice, which will not
require reworking of browsers

- Character entity names
- Netscape extensions

Dave Raggett - rewrite 3.0 based on WG input... rework first cut
for IETF spring

TIMBL HTML-WG charter is under approval, should have 1 or 2 slots at
San Jose IETF

MURRAY - What is a Link that has both a name and an HREF?

Spyglass will edit the 2.1 spec as well

HTML+ is deprecated as a label (Also, the Internet draft has expired)

Dave Raggett will be the editor of 3.0; Dave will start by writing a
requirements document - a philosophical position paper or requirements

The present listserv will be the forum for discussion 2.1 and 3.0

TimBL will pass on chairmanship to someone who can be more active...
should be DTD wonk, but not the editor of a given spec version.

HAKON: Cascading style sheets proposal - welcomes comments and discussion.

Are architectural forms the basis for HTML 4.0?

Encapsulated HTML (Phillip Hallam-Baker)